107: GreyBeards talk MinIO’s support of VMware’s new Data Persistence Platform with AB Periasamy, CEO MinIO

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The GreyBeards have talked with Anand Babu (AB) Periasamy (@ABPeriasamy), CEO MinIO, before (see 097: GreyBeards talk open source S3… episode). And we also saw him earlier this year, at their headquarters for Storage Field Day 19 (SFD19) where AB gave a great discussion of what they were doing and how it worked (see MinIO’s SFD18 presentation videos).

The podcast runs ~26 minutes. AB is very technically astute and always a delight to talk with. He’s extremely knowledgeable about the cloud, containerized applications and high performing S3 compatible object storage. And now with MinIO and vSAN Data Persistence under VCF Tanzu, very knowledgeable about the virtualized IT environment as well. Listen to the podcast to learn more. [We’re trying out a new format placing the podcast up front. Let us know what you think; The Eds.]


VMware VCF vSAN Data Persistence Platform with MinIO

Earlier this month VMware announced a new capability available with the next updates of vSAN, vSphere & VCF called the vSAN Data Persistence Platform. The Data Persistence Platform is a VMware framework designed to integrate stateful, independent vendor software defined storage services in vSphere. By doing so, VCF can provide API access to persistent storage services for containerized applications running under Tanzu Kubernetes (k8s) Grid service clusters.

At the announcement, VMware identified three object storage and one (Cassandra) database technical partners that had been integrated with the solution.  MinIO was an object storage, open source partner.

VMware’s VCF vSAN Data Persistence framework allows vCenter administrators to use vSphere cluster infrastructure to configure and deploy these new stateful storage services, like MinIO, into namespaces and enables app developers direct k8s API access to these storage namespaces to provide persistent, stateful object storage for applications. 

With VCF Tanzu and the vSAN Data Persistence Platform using MinIO, dev can have full support for their CiCd pipeline using native k8s tools to deploy and scale containerized apps on prem, in the public cloud and in hybrid cloud, all using VCF vSphere.

MinIO on the Data Persistence Platform

AB said MinIO with Data Persistence takes advantage of a new capability called vSAN Direct which gives vSAN almost JBOF types of IO control and performance. With MinIO vSAN Direct, storage and k8s cluster applications can co-reside on the same ESX node hardware so that IO activity doesn’t have to hop off host to be performed. In addition, can now populate ESX server nodes with lots (100s to 1000s?) of storage devices and be assured the storage will be used by applications running on that host.

As a result, MinIO’s object storage IO performance on VCF Tanzu is very good due to its use of vSAN Direct and MinIO’s inherent superior IO performance for S3 compatible object storage.

With MinIO on the VCF vSAN Data Persistence Platform, VMware takes over all the work of deploying MinIO software services on the VCF cluster. This way customers can take advantage of MiniO’s fully compatible S3 object storage system operating in their VCF cluster. For app developers they get the best of all worlds, infrastructure configured, deployed and managed by admins but completely controllable, scaleable and accessible through k8s API services.

If developers want to take advantage of MinIO specialized services such as data security or replication, they can do so directly using MinIOs APIs, just like they would when operating bare metal or in the cloud.

AB said the VMware development team was very responsive during development of Data Persistence. AB was surprised to see such a big company, like VMware, operate with almost startup like responsiveness. Keith mentioned he’s seen this in action as vSAN has matured very rapidly to a point of almost feature parity, with just about any storage system out there today .

With MinIO object storage, container applications that need PB of data, now have a home on VCF Tanzu. And it’s as easily usable as any public cloud storage. And with VCF Tanzu configuring and deploying the storage over its own infrastructure, and then having it all managed and administered by vCenter admins, its simple to create and use PB of object storage.

MinIO is already the most popular S3 compatible object storage provider for applications running in the cloud and on prem. And VMware is easily the most popular virtualization platform on the planet. Now with the two together on VCF Tanzu, there seems to be nothing in the way of conquering containerized applications running in IT as well.

With that, MinIO is available everywhere containers want to run, natively available in the cloud, on prem and hybrid cloud or running with VCF Tanzu everywhere as well.


AB Periasamy, CEO MinIO

AB Periasamy is the CEO and co-founder of MinIO. One of the leading thinkers and technologists in the open source software movement,

AB was a co-founder and CTO of GlusterFS which was acquired by RedHat in 2011. Following the acquisition, he served in the office of the CTO at RedHat prior to founding MinIO in late 2015.

AB is an active angel investor and serves on the board of H2O.ai and the Free Software Foundation of India.

He earned his BE in Computer Science and Engineering from Annamalai University.


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103: GreyBeards talk scale-out file and cloud data with Molly Presley & Ben Gitenstein, Qumulo

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Ray has known Molly Presley (@Molly_J_Presley), Head of Global Product Marketing for just about a decade now and we both just met Ben Gitenstein (@Qumulo_Product), VP of Products & Solutions, Qumulo on this podcast. Both Molly and Ben were very knowledgeable about the problems customers have with massive data troves.

Molly has been on our podcast before (with another company, see: GreyBeards talk HPC storage with Molly Rector, CMO & EVP, DDN ). And we have talked with Qumulo before as well (see: GreyBeards talk data-aware, scale-out file systems with Peter Godman, Co-founder & CEO, Qumulo ).

Qumulo has a long history of dealing with customer issues with data center application access to data, usually large data repositories, with billions of small or large files, they have accumulated over time. But recently Qumulo has taken on similar problems in the cloud as well.

Qumulo’s secret has always been to allow researchers to run their applications wherever their data resides. This has led Qumulo’s software defined storage to offer multiple protocol access as well as a completely native, AWS and GCP cloud version of their solution.

That way customers can run Qumulo in their data center or in the cloud and have the same great access to data. Molly mentioned one customer that creates and gathers data using SMB protocol on prem and then, after replication, processes it in the cloud.

Qumulo Shift

Ben mentioned that many competitive storage systems are business model focused. That is they are all about keeping customer data within their solutions so they can charge for capacity. Although Qumulo also charges for capacity, with the new Qumulo Shift service, customer can easily move data off Qumulo and into native cloud storage. Using Shift, customers can free up Qumulo storage space (and cost) for any data that only needs to be accessed as objects.

With Shift, customers can replicate or move on prem or in the cloud Qumulo file data to AWS S3 objects. Once in S3, customers can access it with AWS native applications, other applications that make use of AWS S3 data, or can have that data be accessible around the world.

Qumulo customers can select directories to Shift to an AWS S3 bucket. The Qumulo directory name will be mapped to a S3 bucket name and each file in that directory will be copied to an S3 object in that bucket with the same file name.

At the moment, Qumulo Shift only supports AWS S3. Over time, Qumulo plans to offer support for other public cloud storage targets for Shift.

Shift is based on Qumulo replication services. Qumulo has a number of patents on replication technology that provides for sophisticated monitoring, control and high performance for moving vast amounts of data.

How customers use Shift

One large customer uses Qumulo cloud file services to process seismic data but then makes the results of that analysis available to other clients as S3 objects.

Customers can also take advantage of AWS and other applications that support objects only. For example, AWS SageMaker Machine Learning (ML) processes S3 object data. Qumulo customers could gather training data as files and Shift it to S3 objects for ML training.

Moreover, customers can use Shift to create AWS S3 object backups, archives and DR repositories of Qumulo file data. Ben mentioned DevOps could also use Qumulo Shift via APIs to move file data to S3 objects as part of new application deployment.

Finally, using Shift to copy or move file data to AWS S3, makes it ideal for collaboration by researchers, analysts and just about other entity that needs access to data.

The podcast ran ~26 minutes. Molly has always been easy to talk with and Ben turned out also to be easy to talk with and knew an awful lot about the product and how customers can use it. Keith and I enjoyed our time with Molly and Ben discussing Qumulo and their new Shift service. Listen to the podcast to learn more.

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Ben Gitenstein, VP of Products and Solutions, Qumulo

Ben Gitenstein runs Product at Qumulo. He and his team of product managers and data scientists have conducted nearly 1,000 interviews with storage users and analyzed millions of data points to understand customer needs and the direction of the storage market.

Prior to working at Qumulo, Ben spent five years at Microsoft, where he split his time between Corporate Strategy and Product Planning.

Molly Presley, Head of Global Product Marketing, Qumulo

Molly Presley joined Qumulo in 2018 and leads worldwide product marketing. Molly brings over 15 years of file system and archive technology leadership experience to the role.

Prior to Qumulo, Molly held executive product and marketing leadership roles at Quantum, DataDirect Networks (DDN) and Spectra Logic.

Presley also created the term “Active Archive”, founded the Active Archive Alliance and has served on the Board of the Storage Networking Industry Association (SNIA).

0101: Greybeards talk with Howard Marks, Technologist Extraordinary & Plenipotentiary at VAST

As most of you know, Howard Marks (@deepstoragenet), Technologist Extraordinary & Plenipotentiary at VAST Data used to be a Greybeards co-host and is still on our roster as a co-host emeritus. When I started to schedule this podcast, it was going to be our 100th podcast and we wanted to invite Howard and the rest of the co-hosts to be on the call to discuss our podcast. But alas, the 100th Greybeards podcast came and went, before we could get it done. So we decided to refocus this podcast back on VAST Data.

We talked with Howard last year about VAST and some of this podcast covers the same ground (see last year’s podcast with Howard on VAST Data) but I highlighted below different aspects of their product that we also discussed.

For starters, VAST just finalized a recent round of funding, which if I recall, valued them at over $1B USD, or yet another data storage unicorn.

VAST is a scale out, disaggregated, unstructured data platform that takes advantage of the economics of QLC SSD (from Intel) combined with the speed of 3D XPoint storage class memory (Optane SSD, also from Intel) to support customer data. Intel is an investor in VAST.

VAST uses mutliple front end (controller) servers, with one or more HA NVMe drive module(s) connected via a dual infiniband or 100Gbps Ethernet RDMA cluster interconnect. The HA NVMe drive module has two (IO modules) adapter cards, one for each connection that takes IO and data requests and transfers them across a PCIe bus which connects to QLC and Optane SSDs. They also have a Mellanox (another investor) switch on their backend with a (round robin) DNS router to connect hosts to their storage (front-end) servers.

Each backend HA NVMe drive module has 12 1.5TB Optane U.2 SSDs and 44 15.4TB QLC SSDs, for a total of 56 drives. Customer data is first written to Optane and then destaged to QLC SSD.

QLC has the advantage of being 4 bits per cell (for a lower $/GB stored) but it’s endurance or drive writes/day (dw/d)) is significantly worse than TLC. So VAST has had to work to increase QLC endurance in their system.

Natively, QLC offers ~0.2 dw/d when doing random 4K writes. However, if your system does 128KB sequential writes, it offers 4.0 dw/d. VAST destages data from Optane SSDs to QLC in 1MB chunks which both optimizes endurance and reduces garbage collection write amplification within the drive.

Howard mentioned their frontend servers are stateless, i.e., maintain no state information about any IO activity going on. Any IO state information is maintained by their system in Optane SSDs. Each server maintains a work log (like) structure on Optane that describes what they are doing in support of host IO and other activities. That way, if one front end server goes down, another one can access its log and take over its activity.

Metadata is also maintained only on Optane SSDs. Howard called their metadata structure a V-tree (B-tree). VAST mirrors all meta-data and customer data to two Optane SSDs. So if one Optane SSD goes down, its pair can be used to continue operations.

In last years podcast we talked at length about VAST data protection and data reduction capabilities so we won’t discuss these any further here.

However, one thing worth noting is that VAST has a very large RAID (erasure code protection) stripe. Data is written to the QLC SSDs in a VAST designed, locally decodable erasure coding format.

One problem with large stripes is rebuild time. VAST’s locally decodable parity codes help with this but the other thing that helps is distributing rebuild IO activity to all front end servers in the system.

The other problem with large stripe sizes is garbage collection. VAST segregates customer data by “temporariness” based on their best guess. In this way all data in one stripe should have similar lifetimes. When it’s time for stripe garbage collection, having all temporary data allows VAST to jettison the whole stripe (or most of it) rather than having to collect and re-write old stripe data to another new stripe.

VAST came out supporting NFSv3 and S3 object storage protocols, Their next release adds support for SMB 2.2, data-at-rest encryption and snapshotting to an external S3 store. As you may recall SMB is a stateful protocol. In VAST’s home grown, SMB implementation, front end servers can take over SMB transactions from other failed servers, without having to fail the whole transaction and start over again.

VAST uses a fail in place, maintenance policy. That is failed SSDs are not normally replaced in customer deployments, rather blocks, pages, or SSDs are marked as failed and the spare capacity available in the drive enclosure is used to provide space for any needed rebuilt data.

VAST offers a 10 year maintenance option where the customer keeps the same storage for 10 full years. That way customers don’t have to migrate data from one system to another until their 10 years are up.

The podcast runs a little under 44 minutes. Howard and I can talk forever. He is always a pleasure to talk with as well as extremely knowledgeable about (VAST) storage and other industry solutions.  The co-hosts and I had a great time talking with him again. Listen to the podcast to learn more.

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Howard Marks, Technologist Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary, VAST Data, Inc.

Howard Marks brings over forty years of experience as a technology architect for hire and Industry observer to his role as VAST Data’s Technologist Extraordinary and Plienopotentary. In this role, Howard demystifies VAST’s technologies for customers and customer requirements for VAST’s engineers.

Before joining VAST, Howard ran DeepStorage an industry test lab and analyst firm. An award-winning speaker, he has appeared at events on three continents including Comdex, Interop and VMworld.

Howard is the author of several books (all gratefully out of print) and hundreds of articles since Bill Machrone taught him journalism at PC Magazine in the 1980s.

Listeners may also remember that Howard was a founding co-Host of the Greybeards-on-Storage Podcast.

097: GreyBeards talk open source S3 object store with AB Periasamy, CEO MinIO

Ray was at SFD19 a few weeks ago and the last session of the week (usually dead) was with MinIO and they just blew us away (see videos of MinIO’s session here). Ray thought Anand Babu (AB) Periasamy (@ABPeriasamy), CEO MinIO, who was the main presenter at the session, would be a great invite for our GreyBeards podcast. Keith and I had a ball talking with AB.

Why object store

There’s something afoot in object storage space over the last year or so. It seems everybody is looking to deploy object store whether that be on prem, in CoLo facilities and in the cloud. It could be just the mass of data coming online but that trend has remained the same for years no. No it’s something else.

It all starts with AWS and S3. Over the last couple of years AWS has been rolling out new functionality that only works with S3 and this has been driving even more adoption of S3 as well as other object storage solutions.

S3 compatible object stores are available in just about every cloud service, available from major (and minor) storage vendors and in open source from MinIO.

Why S3 is so popular

Because object store is accessed via RestFUL interfaces, traditionally most implementations used their own API to access it. But when AWS created S3 (simple storage service) with their own API/SDK to access it, it somehow became the de-facto standard interface for all other object stores. S3 compatibility became a significant feature that all object stores had to support.

Sometime after that MinIO came into existence. MinIO provides a 100% open source, fully AWS S3 compatible object store that you can run anywhere on prem, in CoLo facilities and indeed in the cloud. In fact, there exist customers that run MinIO in AWS AB says this is probably just customers using a packaged software solution which happens to include MinIO but it’s nonetheless more expensive than AWS S3 as it uses EC2 instances and EBS storage to create an object store

Customers can access MinIO object stores with the AWS S3 SDK or the MinIO SDK. and you can access AWS S3 storage with AWS S3 SDK or use MinIO SDK. Occosionally, AWS S3 updates have broken MinIO’s SDK but these have been later fixed by AWS. It seems AWS and MinIO are on good terms.

AB mentioned that as customers get up to a few PBs of AWS S3 storage they often find the costs to be too high. It’s at this point that they start looking at other object storage solutions. But because MinIO is 100% S3 compatible and it’s open source many of these customers deploy it in their own data center facilities or in colo environments.

For those customers that want it, MinIO also offers an S3 gateway. With the gateway on prem customers can use S3 or standard file services to access S3 object storage located in the cloud. The gateway also works in the public cloud and can support both AWS s3 as well as Microsoft Blob storage as a backend.

MinIO matches AWS S3 features

AWS S3 has a number of great features and MinIO has matched or exceeded them all, step by step. AWS S3 has cross region replication options where customers can replicate S3 data from one region to another. MinIO supports both asynchronous replication of S3 data and synchronous replication (using RADIO).

But MinIO adds support for erasure coding within a fault domain. Default is Nx2 erasure coding which duplicates all your data so as long as 1/2 of your servers and storage are available you continue to have access to all your data. But this can be configured down like 12+4 where data is split accross 16 servers any four of which can fail and you can still access data.

AWS customers can use a Snowball (standalone storage device) to transfer data to or from S3 storage. AWS Snowball implements a subset of S3 API and requires a NAS staging area of equivalent size to migrate data out of S3. MinIO has support for Snowball’s limited S3 API and as such, Snowball’s can be used to migrate data into or out of MinIO. MinIO has a blog post which describes their support for AWS Snowball.

AWS also offers S3 Lambda services or server less computing services where compute services can be invoked when data is loaded in a bucket and then turned off when no longer needed. AWS Lambda depends on AWS messaging and other services to work properly. But MinIO supports Lambda like functionality using other open source services. AB mentions MQTT and Kafka services. MinIO has another blog post discussing their Lambda like services based on Kafka.

AWS recently implemented Snowflake a SQL database server for unstructured data that uses S3 storage to hold data. Ray and Keith almost choked on that statement as unstructured data and databases never used to be uttered in the same breath. But what AWS has shown was that you can use object store for database data as long as you are willing to load the table into memory and process it there and then unload any modified table data back into the object store. Indexing of the object data seems to be done as the data is being loaded and is also being done in a (random IO) cache or in memory and once done can also be unloaded into the object store.

Now Snowflake uses S3 but it’s not available on prem. MinIO has a number of data base partners that make use of their object store as a backend to host a Snowflake like service onprem. AB mentioned Spark and Splunk but there are others as well.

We ended up the discussion with what does it mean to have 20K stars on GitHub. AB said if you did a java script getting 20K stars would be easy but you just don’t see this sort of open source popularity for storage systems. He said the number is interesting but the growth rate is even more interesting.

The podcast runs ~47 minutes. AB was a great to talk tech with. Keith and I could have talked all afternoon with AB. It was very hard to stop the recording as we could have talked with him for another hour or more. AB said he doesn’t like to do podcasts or videos but he had no problem with us firing away questions. Listen to the podcast to learn more.

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Anand Babu Periasamy, CEO MinIO

AB Periasamy is the CEO and co-founder of MinIO. One of the leading thinkers and technologists in the open source software movement, AB was a co-founder and CTO of GlusterFS which was acquired by RedHat in 2011. Following the acquisition, he served in the office of the CTO at RedHat prior to founding MinIO in late 2015. AB is an active angel investor and serves on the board of H2O.ai and the Free Software Foundation of India.

He earned his BE in Computer Science and Engineering from Annamalai University.

095: GreyBeards talk file sync&share with S. Azam Ali, VP Customer Success at CentreStack

We haven’t talked with a file synch and share vendor in a while now and Matt was interested in the technology. He had been talking with CentreStack, and found that they had been making some inroads in the enterprise. So we contacted S. Azam Ali, VP of Customer Success at CentreStack and asked if he wanted to talk about their product on our podcast.

File synch and share, is part collaboration tool, part productivity tool. With file synch & share many users share the same files, across many different environments and end point devices. It’s especially popular with road warriors that need access to the same files on the road that reside in corporate data centers. With this technology, files updated anywhere would be available to all.

Most file synch&share systems require you to use their storage. But CentreStack just provides synch and share access to NFS and SMB storage that’s already in the data center.

CentreStack doesn’t use VPNs to access data, many other vendor do. But with CentreStack, one just log’s into a website (with AD credentials) and they have immediate browser access to files.

CentreStack uses a gateway VM, that runs in the corporate data center, configured to share files/file directories/shares. We asked whether they were in the data path and Azam said no. However, the gateway does register for file system notifications (e.g. when files are updated, outside CentreStack, they get notified).

CentreStack does maintain meta-data on the files, directories, shares that are under it’s control. Presumably, once an admin sets it up, it goes out and access the file systems that have shared files and populates their meta-data for those files.

CentreStack works with any NFS and SMB file system as well as NAS servers that support these two. It’s unclear whether customers can have more than one gateway server in their data center supporting synch and share but Azam did say that it wasn’t unusual for customers with multi-data centers to have a gateway in each, to support synch&share requirements for each data center.

They use client software on end point devices, which presents the shared files as an external drive (to Mac), presumably a cloud drive for Windows PCs and similar services (in an App) for other systems (IOS, Android phones, iPad, etc.). We believe Azam said Linux was coming soon.

The client software can be configured in cache mode or offline mode:

  • Cache mode – the admin can configure how much space to use on the endpoint device and the software will cache the most recently used files in that space for faster access
  • Offline mode – the software moves all files that the endpoint login can access, to the device.

In cache mode, when users open a file (not in the most recently used cache), there will be some delay as the system retrieves data from the internet and copies it to the endpoint device. Unclear what the delay might be but it’s probably a function of internet speed and load on the gateway, with possibly some overhead for the NFS/SMB/NAS system to supply the data. If there’s not enough space to hold the file, the oldest non-open file is erased from the cache.

In both modes, Centrestack supports cross domain locking. That is, if one client has a file open (for update), all other systems/endpoints may only access the file in read-only mode. After the file is closed. the file can then be opened for update by other users.

When CentreStack clients are used to update files, the data is stored back in the original file systems with versioning. This way if the data is corrupted, admins can easily return back to a known good copy version.

CentreStack also offers a cloud backup and DR service. Gateway admins can request that synch&share files be backed up to cloud storage (AWS S3, Azure Blob and Wasabi). When CentreStack backups file data to the cloud, it also includes metadata information about the files so they can be re-constituted anywhere.

A CentreStack cloud gateway VM can be activated in the cloud to supply access to backed up files. Unclear whether the CentreStack cloud backup has to be restored to block or file storage first or if it just accesses the data on cloud storage directly. But one customers using CentreStack cloud DR would need to run client software in their applications accessing these files.

Wasabi seemed an odd solution to have on their list of supported cloud storage providers, but Azam said for their market, the economics of Wasabi storage were hard to ignore. See our previous podcast with David Friend, Co-Founder& CEO, Wasabi, to learn more about Wasabi.

CentreStack is licensed on a per user basis, not storage capacity bucking industry trends. But they don’t actually own the storage so it makes sense. For CentreStack cloud backup, customers also have to supply the cloud storage.

They also offer a 30 day free trial on their website with unlimited users. We assume this uses CentreStacks cloud gateway and customers bring their own cloud storage to support it.

The podcast runs about 35 minutes. Azam was a bit more marketing than we are used to, but he warmed up once we started asking questions. Listen to the podcast to learn more.

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S. Azam Ali, VP of Customer Success, CentreStack

S. Azam Ali, is VP of Customer Success at CentreStack and is an executive with extensive experience in managing global teams including sales, support and consulting services.

Azam’s channel experience includes on-boarding new partners including creation of marketing and training collateral for the partners. Azam is an executive with a passion for customer success and establishing long term relationships and partnerships.

Azam is also an advisor to startups as well as established technology companies.